gnasher729
Jul 20, 01:21 PM
Is having more cores more energy efficient than having one big fat ass 24Ghz processor? Maybe thats a factor in the increasing core count.
Absolutely.
The power consumption of a chip is proportional to the clock speed, multiplied by the voltage squared. So at the same voltage, a hypothetical 24 GHz chip would use eight times as much power as a single 3 GHz chip, and the same as eight 3 GHz chips.
However, with any given technology, you need higher voltage to achieve the higher clock speed. So with the same technology, that 24 GHz chip would need much much higher voltage than the 3 GHz chips and accordingly it would take much more energy than eight 3 GHz chips.
As an example, some iPods have two ARM chips running at half the clock speed and lower power instead of a single ARM chip running at higher speed, in order to safe power.
Absolutely.
The power consumption of a chip is proportional to the clock speed, multiplied by the voltage squared. So at the same voltage, a hypothetical 24 GHz chip would use eight times as much power as a single 3 GHz chip, and the same as eight 3 GHz chips.
However, with any given technology, you need higher voltage to achieve the higher clock speed. So with the same technology, that 24 GHz chip would need much much higher voltage than the 3 GHz chips and accordingly it would take much more energy than eight 3 GHz chips.
As an example, some iPods have two ARM chips running at half the clock speed and lower power instead of a single ARM chip running at higher speed, in order to safe power.
Westside guy
Aug 11, 02:27 PM
Hmm... maybe I stand corrected on this - see paragraph three (or four, if you count bullet points as a paragrapn).
T-Mobile USA to End Network Venture with Cingular and Acquire California/Nevada Network and Spectrum (http://www.t-mobile.com/company/PressReleases_Article.aspx?assetName=Prs_Prs_20040525&title=T-Mobile%20USA%20to%20End%20Network%20Venture%20with%20Cingular%20and%20Acquire%20California/Nevada%20Network%20and%20Spectrum)
I was curious; so I went into my V600's network settings and found a Cingular network. I registered with it, and was able to make a call.
I don't understand why this isn't automatic though. I don't always have coverage at times when my Cingular-using office mate does.
T-Mobile USA to End Network Venture with Cingular and Acquire California/Nevada Network and Spectrum (http://www.t-mobile.com/company/PressReleases_Article.aspx?assetName=Prs_Prs_20040525&title=T-Mobile%20USA%20to%20End%20Network%20Venture%20with%20Cingular%20and%20Acquire%20California/Nevada%20Network%20and%20Spectrum)
I was curious; so I went into my V600's network settings and found a Cingular network. I registered with it, and was able to make a call.
I don't understand why this isn't automatic though. I don't always have coverage at times when my Cingular-using office mate does.
fivepoint
Mar 22, 12:56 PM
Precisely. The UN mandate is to enforce a no-fly zone, amongst other things, tasks that are particularly suited for certain nations. I'm no gung-ho supporter of this action in Libya, but it strikes me as similar to Bosnia, with the real political pressure coming particularly from France for very real reasons.
Expect the overt US involvement to rapidly scale back soon.
Did Ronald Reagan get a go-ahead from Congress in 1986 for attacking Libya?
No he did not. It was a mistake then, it is a mistake now. The only difference is, I oppose it in all circumstances, regardless of who's president. You only oppose it when it's a Republican in office.
Wait a second. Wait a second. You are trying to compare the media's portrayal of GWB over about SEVEN years, TWO wars, and HOW MANY lies to Libya and less then ONE WEEK. The Lybia thing has been going on for about a day or so. In the FIRST days of the Afghanistan war, did you hear ANY mainstream media criticizing GWB? In the FIRST days of the Iraq war, did you hear ANY mainstream media criticizing GWB? Democrats were falling all over themselves to support the President and the need to get those WMDs, which is why after almost 6 years, it was a defining issue of the presidential campaign. The candidates 5 years later were all explaining why they supported one war then, but not now after all the lies were exposed, or how they were against it all along. Not to mention Afghanistan after 7 years. There were a few, unlike now, where there are a lot.
This is THE FIRST WEEK of this thing, and NBC nightly news had their entire story about: criticism from congress; inability of white house to deal with that problem, partly because in Brazil; late involvement; involvement here but not in Somalia, Congo, etc..., risk that Ghaddafi would survive this and remain in power; lack of real Arab support and weak coalition; and fact that opposition is disorganized, poorly armed and leaderless, and probably won't be able to win without military support on the ground.
That's pretty hard reporting, and I'm very happy Congress is being critical. Almost everything Fivepoint, the GOP and the Democrats who are speaking out have said is a valid concern. They should have done this during week ONE of Afghanistan, and Iraq. I know I don't want another one of those.
(edit) Yesterday, NPR was talking about Candidate Obama vs. President Obama, and pointed out Candidate Obama's statements about ONLY CONGRESS CAN DECLARE WAR. They discussed, at length, prior presidents assumption of power, Obama's use of it and how guest couldn't imagine a new president opposed to a power like this giving it up. So, maybe you should watch some NBC, ABC, CBS and listen to some NPR. Mind you, in FPs defense, I spent 16 hours in the car since this all started, so I've probably heard every story...
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Expect the overt US involvement to rapidly scale back soon.
Did Ronald Reagan get a go-ahead from Congress in 1986 for attacking Libya?
No he did not. It was a mistake then, it is a mistake now. The only difference is, I oppose it in all circumstances, regardless of who's president. You only oppose it when it's a Republican in office.
Wait a second. Wait a second. You are trying to compare the media's portrayal of GWB over about SEVEN years, TWO wars, and HOW MANY lies to Libya and less then ONE WEEK. The Lybia thing has been going on for about a day or so. In the FIRST days of the Afghanistan war, did you hear ANY mainstream media criticizing GWB? In the FIRST days of the Iraq war, did you hear ANY mainstream media criticizing GWB? Democrats were falling all over themselves to support the President and the need to get those WMDs, which is why after almost 6 years, it was a defining issue of the presidential campaign. The candidates 5 years later were all explaining why they supported one war then, but not now after all the lies were exposed, or how they were against it all along. Not to mention Afghanistan after 7 years. There were a few, unlike now, where there are a lot.
This is THE FIRST WEEK of this thing, and NBC nightly news had their entire story about: criticism from congress; inability of white house to deal with that problem, partly because in Brazil; late involvement; involvement here but not in Somalia, Congo, etc..., risk that Ghaddafi would survive this and remain in power; lack of real Arab support and weak coalition; and fact that opposition is disorganized, poorly armed and leaderless, and probably won't be able to win without military support on the ground.
That's pretty hard reporting, and I'm very happy Congress is being critical. Almost everything Fivepoint, the GOP and the Democrats who are speaking out have said is a valid concern. They should have done this during week ONE of Afghanistan, and Iraq. I know I don't want another one of those.
(edit) Yesterday, NPR was talking about Candidate Obama vs. President Obama, and pointed out Candidate Obama's statements about ONLY CONGRESS CAN DECLARE WAR. They discussed, at length, prior presidents assumption of power, Obama's use of it and how guest couldn't imagine a new president opposed to a power like this giving it up. So, maybe you should watch some NBC, ABC, CBS and listen to some NPR. Mind you, in FPs defense, I spent 16 hours in the car since this all started, so I've probably heard every story...
ricgnzlzcr
Aug 15, 12:30 PM
Wow, I'm really surprised by those photoshop tests. When those go universal I'm sure my jaw will drop
marksman
Apr 11, 03:17 PM
Personally, a bigger screen > Retina Display.
So a 50" SD tv is better than a 42" High Def tv?
So a 50" SD tv is better than a 42" High Def tv?
daneoni
Aug 26, 03:51 PM
I dont see much change really, the 1.66GHz merom chip will find its way into the mini (they'll scrap the solo model).
The 1.83 & 2.00GHz for iMacs (if they use merom) and MacBooks and the 2.16 and 2.33 for the 15 & 17 MBPs respectively. Its that simple.
The 1.83 & 2.00GHz for iMacs (if they use merom) and MacBooks and the 2.16 and 2.33 for the 15 & 17 MBPs respectively. Its that simple.
jcampa
Aug 27, 12:42 PM
Just a few hours left, let's hope we see new MacBook Pros tomorrow, I think we'll see the new iMacs with Merom in Paris, because it's a very good announcement for consumers, and get the Pro MB's tomorrow.
thetexan
Apr 27, 08:46 AM
Didn't Google get in trouble for tagging SSIDs of hotspots when running their streetview vans through town? How is this any different, besides the fact you're the van instead of Google?
georgi0
Sep 19, 01:08 AM
i agree and i believe that Apple should keep at least for 1 year the same models before updating, except when a new tech comes out like true 64 bit support.
let's see now....
let's see now....
mcrain
Apr 27, 02:55 PM
Oh- and you're always objective. You are arguably one of the most abrasive and biased people here, and proud of it.
BTW- just opened the same file- no layers. So you tell me what I'm missing here.
Wait until he tells us which right-wing fringe website he was on so you can go read the instructions and try to recreate this silly pointless endeavor.
(edit) Whack-a-doodle website with Illustrator instructions (http://www.nkyvoice.com/2011/04/long-form-birth-certificate.html). Is this it Fivepoint?
Or is it this other nutty site (http://www.patrioticdissent.net/2011/04/obama-long-form-birth-certificate-fake.html)?
BTW- just opened the same file- no layers. So you tell me what I'm missing here.
Wait until he tells us which right-wing fringe website he was on so you can go read the instructions and try to recreate this silly pointless endeavor.
(edit) Whack-a-doodle website with Illustrator instructions (http://www.nkyvoice.com/2011/04/long-form-birth-certificate.html). Is this it Fivepoint?
Or is it this other nutty site (http://www.patrioticdissent.net/2011/04/obama-long-form-birth-certificate-fake.html)?
MatthewThomas
Apr 10, 11:45 AM
I'll be at the event and plan to give my take on it. I've been using FCP since day one and can attest that little actual functionality has changed over the years. There have been additional features added, but nearly no change to the way that you do your work. And in a post-tape world, this is not good.
Here is a long thread featuring my ideas and predictions over what the FCP platform may become, and how it might affect Apple's other distribution models:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I posted this a few days ago when this rumor first broke, but I think it might be fun to post again. It is a long thread, and some of the most interesting predictions are found buried in the dozen+ pages of posts. I should add that Cinema5D is a forum for digital filmmakers and commercial producers that need to operate on limited budgets, so the comments there reflect some of the best "up and coming" Final Cut Pro users.
Here is a long thread featuring my ideas and predictions over what the FCP platform may become, and how it might affect Apple's other distribution models:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I posted this a few days ago when this rumor first broke, but I think it might be fun to post again. It is a long thread, and some of the most interesting predictions are found buried in the dozen+ pages of posts. I should add that Cinema5D is a forum for digital filmmakers and commercial producers that need to operate on limited budgets, so the comments there reflect some of the best "up and coming" Final Cut Pro users.
Northgrove
Mar 26, 11:21 AM
Damn, this was confusing. I can barely decide between the 24 versions you mentioned. Add Windows 7 Starter, a version meant only for Notebooks. Still only 4 versions.
Windows 7 is available in six editions, and three of those (bolded) are available through normal retail channels.
- Windows 7 Starter
- Windows 7 Home Basic
- Windows 7 Home Premium
- Windows 7 Professional
- Windows 7 Enterprise
- Windows 7 Ultimate
You also need to decide on the architecture before purchase, unlike OS X.
If you count those (they are packaged in different boxes after all), this brings the number up to 11. Starter doesn't come in a 64-bit edition.
Finally, this of course doesn't include the server editions of the Windows 7 kernel.
Windows 7 is available in six editions, and three of those (bolded) are available through normal retail channels.
- Windows 7 Starter
- Windows 7 Home Basic
- Windows 7 Home Premium
- Windows 7 Professional
- Windows 7 Enterprise
- Windows 7 Ultimate
You also need to decide on the architecture before purchase, unlike OS X.
If you count those (they are packaged in different boxes after all), this brings the number up to 11. Starter doesn't come in a 64-bit edition.
Finally, this of course doesn't include the server editions of the Windows 7 kernel.
gnasher729
Jul 28, 06:27 AM
Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?
64 bit is required for applications that need more than four GB of memory. For other things, it is nice to have, but not required. If you buy a MacBook today, you wouldn't be able to put more than 4 GB of memory in it for the next few years anyway, so in that respect it doesn't matter much whether you have a Yonah or Merom chip. For everything else, 64 bit software might run a bit faster than 32 bit software on a 64 bit chip, but it is not essential. So I think applications will ship as 32 bit or as combined 32/64 bit applications for quite some time.
The question for the developers would be: If I switch to 64 bit exclusively, so my code runs ten percent faster on Core 2 Duo, but 1-2 million Macintosh users cannot use it at all, how many sales will I gain because it is faster, and how many sales will I lose because 2 million people cannot use it? Three years from now, the answer will still be that you lose more sales running 64 bit only.
64 bit is required for applications that need more than four GB of memory. For other things, it is nice to have, but not required. If you buy a MacBook today, you wouldn't be able to put more than 4 GB of memory in it for the next few years anyway, so in that respect it doesn't matter much whether you have a Yonah or Merom chip. For everything else, 64 bit software might run a bit faster than 32 bit software on a 64 bit chip, but it is not essential. So I think applications will ship as 32 bit or as combined 32/64 bit applications for quite some time.
The question for the developers would be: If I switch to 64 bit exclusively, so my code runs ten percent faster on Core 2 Duo, but 1-2 million Macintosh users cannot use it at all, how many sales will I gain because it is faster, and how many sales will I lose because 2 million people cannot use it? Three years from now, the answer will still be that you lose more sales running 64 bit only.
shamino
Jul 20, 09:58 AM
No I think you are confused. :) I meant "Is having more cores, lets say 8, more efficient than one big core equal in processing power to the 8 cores?"
First of all, you assume that it is possible to make "one big core equal in processing power to the 8 cores". I don't think it is possible to do this (at least not with the x86 architecture using today's technology.)
But assuming such a chip exists, the answer depends on what kind of efficiency you're thinking of.
If you mean computational efficiency (meaning the most useful processing per clock-tick), then a single big core will do better. This is because single-threaded apps will be able to use the full power (whereas multiple threads are needed to take advantagte of multiple cores.) Also, the operating system can get rid of the overhead that is needed to keep software running on the multiple cores from stepping on each other.
If you mean energy efficiency (amount of processing per watt of electricity consumed), then it could go either way, depending on how the chips are made. But given today's manufacturing processes and the non-linear power curve that we see as clock speeds are increased, the multiple-core solution will almost definitely use less power.
First of all, you assume that it is possible to make "one big core equal in processing power to the 8 cores". I don't think it is possible to do this (at least not with the x86 architecture using today's technology.)
But assuming such a chip exists, the answer depends on what kind of efficiency you're thinking of.
If you mean computational efficiency (meaning the most useful processing per clock-tick), then a single big core will do better. This is because single-threaded apps will be able to use the full power (whereas multiple threads are needed to take advantagte of multiple cores.) Also, the operating system can get rid of the overhead that is needed to keep software running on the multiple cores from stepping on each other.
If you mean energy efficiency (amount of processing per watt of electricity consumed), then it could go either way, depending on how the chips are made. But given today's manufacturing processes and the non-linear power curve that we see as clock speeds are increased, the multiple-core solution will almost definitely use less power.
tyroja00
Sep 19, 08:02 AM
Apple's reliability? Care to elaborate more specifically? Good high quality well designed never dying logic boards that run at 40-ish degrees Celsius for one? :p
Well I have had 5 PC laptops in the past 7 years, through work and personal use. Other than the IBM, I have had various unacceptable problems from frequent crashes to jacked-up touchpads that go where they please. My second hand PB has yet to do anything, not one crash. Also, I have taken apart my laptops (b/c I am a geek like that) and I must say that Apple laptops are a work of pure attention to detail. Finally, just read consumer reports for reliability. Apple smokes everyone. But, I also think that a lot of issues arise in PC's due to people not knowing how to maintain their computers and their computer's software.
Well I have had 5 PC laptops in the past 7 years, through work and personal use. Other than the IBM, I have had various unacceptable problems from frequent crashes to jacked-up touchpads that go where they please. My second hand PB has yet to do anything, not one crash. Also, I have taken apart my laptops (b/c I am a geek like that) and I must say that Apple laptops are a work of pure attention to detail. Finally, just read consumer reports for reliability. Apple smokes everyone. But, I also think that a lot of issues arise in PC's due to people not knowing how to maintain their computers and their computer's software.
KingYaba
Aug 27, 10:45 AM
Maybe an x1800. We all just have to wait and see. :)
cult hero
Mar 26, 01:27 AM
Right on both counts. Still, I think its amazing that we might be getting a server class OS for what will most likely be less than $129.
It is cool. (Although technically I get my main server class OS for free with Linux. :P)
Since the introduction of the Mac Mini server though I think Apple was kinda pointing in the direction they were going with servers which is out of the Enterprise and into SOHO and in general the move makes a lot of sense. Even though I do a lot of Linux admin work, at the main office I service we're running a pair of Mac Mini Servers and they are absolutely brain dead to set up.
The SOHO (especially the HO portion) is simply not going to drop $500 - $1000 on a server OS. I think with Lion, Apple's gonna hit a home run in that niche�a niche that, in my opinion, is growing and is underserved. If their Samba replacement will behave like a proper domain controller in a Windows environment, even if it's not feature complete, you'll see a lot of the SO portion look twice at it.
It is cool. (Although technically I get my main server class OS for free with Linux. :P)
Since the introduction of the Mac Mini server though I think Apple was kinda pointing in the direction they were going with servers which is out of the Enterprise and into SOHO and in general the move makes a lot of sense. Even though I do a lot of Linux admin work, at the main office I service we're running a pair of Mac Mini Servers and they are absolutely brain dead to set up.
The SOHO (especially the HO portion) is simply not going to drop $500 - $1000 on a server OS. I think with Lion, Apple's gonna hit a home run in that niche�a niche that, in my opinion, is growing and is underserved. If their Samba replacement will behave like a proper domain controller in a Windows environment, even if it's not feature complete, you'll see a lot of the SO portion look twice at it.
rjohnstone
Apr 19, 06:58 PM
After reading some of the lawsuit, I had to post this..
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2010-11-04_174623.jpg
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pn_20101104170853.jpg
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/2010/11/galaxy-tab-released/
What is the pic on the bottom? That ain't no Samsung tablet. Looks like a photoshop job.
All Samsung tabs have SAMSUNG blazed across the top of the face.
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2010-11-04_174623.jpg
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pn_20101104170853.jpg
http://pk.funnyseoul.com/2010/11/galaxy-tab-released/
What is the pic on the bottom? That ain't no Samsung tablet. Looks like a photoshop job.
All Samsung tabs have SAMSUNG blazed across the top of the face.
cbronfman
Apr 11, 06:44 PM
Doesn't this make sense? I think I'm close, I'm sure I forgot something / not perfectly accurate, but this seems like what Apple is shooting for. Makes sense to me...
Jan: iPhone (like original)
Mar: iPad
May: iMac/MacPro
June/Jul: Software
Sept: iPods
Nov: Laptops
The original iPhone which I purchased was released on June 29th, 2007 (I guess - wow that's a while ago) although it was announced much earlier.
Jan: iPhone (like original)
Mar: iPad
May: iMac/MacPro
June/Jul: Software
Sept: iPods
Nov: Laptops
The original iPhone which I purchased was released on June 29th, 2007 (I guess - wow that's a while ago) although it was announced much earlier.
mcrain
Mar 23, 02:59 PM
"Lying" implies intent. Are you accusing them of lying, or getting it wrong? They absolutely lied, and they got stuff wrong. I believe there was malevolent intent, and to the extent that can't be proven, there was clear reckless disregard for the truth.
Is it your position that Libya represents a larger danger to American assets/security than Iraq? If not, is it your suggestion that America should be involved in every humanitarian crisis with brutal dictators worldwide, or at least those comparable to Libya? If so, why aren't we in North Korea? Why aren't we in any number of African nations? There are many in the mainstream media and many on the left who are saying today that there are problems. Asking why we didn't go into other African countries, criticizing the coalition and the idea that this is "minimal" US involvement. I'm not claiming the left is perfect, but rather pointing out that your claim (re: hipocricy from 'the left in media') is far too broad and ignores the realities of the media coverage and congressional responses.
But I also think it's important (especially in this forum) to point out hypocrisy stemming from the left so that the Macrumors Echo Chamber doesn't keep you all in denial. I've been in these forums for a long time, and I can tell you that while some denial occurs, liberals are far more likely to be critical of the politicians they support than conservatives are.
Is it your position that Libya represents a larger danger to American assets/security than Iraq? If not, is it your suggestion that America should be involved in every humanitarian crisis with brutal dictators worldwide, or at least those comparable to Libya? If so, why aren't we in North Korea? Why aren't we in any number of African nations? There are many in the mainstream media and many on the left who are saying today that there are problems. Asking why we didn't go into other African countries, criticizing the coalition and the idea that this is "minimal" US involvement. I'm not claiming the left is perfect, but rather pointing out that your claim (re: hipocricy from 'the left in media') is far too broad and ignores the realities of the media coverage and congressional responses.
But I also think it's important (especially in this forum) to point out hypocrisy stemming from the left so that the Macrumors Echo Chamber doesn't keep you all in denial. I've been in these forums for a long time, and I can tell you that while some denial occurs, liberals are far more likely to be critical of the politicians they support than conservatives are.
Lord Blackadder
Mar 23, 12:50 AM
I initially supported the Iraq invasion. I believed the Bush Administration's case for WMD's - in particular I was swayed by Colin Powell's presentation to the UN. I believed then, as I do now, that Saddam Hussein's government was arbitrary, cruel, corrupt.
Looking back, it should have been obvious to me that there were a huge number of potential pitfalls - lack of support from Iraqis (and to a lesser extent the international community through the UN) being the most critical. While the initial invasion was predictably successful, the entire issue of post-Saddam Iraq had been poorly thought out - to the extent that it was thought out at all. The result is a tragic disaster of truly epic proportions.
Still, even with this tragedy fresh in our minds (and indeed ongoing along with the war in Afghanistan), I find it impossible to look at the Libyan situation and say "we should not intervene". There is much I do not like about how the my country behaves on the international stage, but in this affair I feel that non-intervention is unconscionable.
Looking back, it should have been obvious to me that there were a huge number of potential pitfalls - lack of support from Iraqis (and to a lesser extent the international community through the UN) being the most critical. While the initial invasion was predictably successful, the entire issue of post-Saddam Iraq had been poorly thought out - to the extent that it was thought out at all. The result is a tragic disaster of truly epic proportions.
Still, even with this tragedy fresh in our minds (and indeed ongoing along with the war in Afghanistan), I find it impossible to look at the Libyan situation and say "we should not intervene". There is much I do not like about how the my country behaves on the international stage, but in this affair I feel that non-intervention is unconscionable.
manu chao
Apr 27, 08:47 AM
But if that happens, they already know everything there is to know about you anyway and have no need to check your Wi-Fi database. They've got your Address Book info, your bank site links and cookies, your email, your personal letters, etc.
The point is that I save on my computer what I consider the computer to be safe enough for, which includes, eg, my e-mails. I simply would like to be given the choice to decide whether I want to save certain things on my computer or not. With that database, Apple did not give me the choice because it did not inform me about this database (if it had told me, I might have run a cron job to delete it, excluded it from my TM backups, encrypted my iPhone backups, etc.).
The point is that I save on my computer what I consider the computer to be safe enough for, which includes, eg, my e-mails. I simply would like to be given the choice to decide whether I want to save certain things on my computer or not. With that database, Apple did not give me the choice because it did not inform me about this database (if it had told me, I might have run a cron job to delete it, excluded it from my TM backups, encrypted my iPhone backups, etc.).
Full of Win
Mar 25, 10:56 PM
Just one step closer to 10.7.3, the first release I would ever think to use.
Mammoth
Jul 15, 10:14 AM
Looking at PC product offerings by ATI (http://www.ati.com/products/workstation/fireglmatrix.html), you can see that they also offer video cards with two dual-link DVI ports on a single card. You can even get this on a Radeon X1900 series card (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx1900/radeonx1900xtx/specs.html).
I believe you are wrong (http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/images/RX1900_Board_lg.jpg).
(Believe)
I believe you are wrong (http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/images/RX1900_Board_lg.jpg).
(Believe)