Silentwave
Aug 27, 06:58 PM
That's the old pricing mate :) 1.83 GHz Yonah/ Merom is $240.
Now. But how much have iMac prices changed since release? I don't think they have. They released the iMac and MBP lines around the same time Yonah was intro'ed, and the iMacs did not see any speed bumps or price changes that I know of. Therefore they should be able to implement similar pricing with Conroe @ 2.4GHz, just with a profit margin closer to the iMac release amounts.
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
Now. But how much have iMac prices changed since release? I don't think they have. They released the iMac and MBP lines around the same time Yonah was intro'ed, and the iMacs did not see any speed bumps or price changes that I know of. Therefore they should be able to implement similar pricing with Conroe @ 2.4GHz, just with a profit margin closer to the iMac release amounts.
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
tekmoe
Jul 27, 02:57 PM
Actually, the merom in not completely compatible with the yonah chips. There will have to be some redesign on Apple's part that is supposed to delay the new MBPs. This article somewhat explains it:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=249
Also, since Apple is now kind of competeing with PCs who get the newest and fastest, it would be in Apple's best interest to get these chips in MBPs asap. Also, it is easy to see that a lot of people are waiting to purchase a new Apple laptop with this technology. MBP's current sales are going to slump from here on out until this technology is put into some new computers.
this blog was also written by jason o'grady, aka the PowerPage rumor site. his writing means nothing to me.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=249
Also, since Apple is now kind of competeing with PCs who get the newest and fastest, it would be in Apple's best interest to get these chips in MBPs asap. Also, it is easy to see that a lot of people are waiting to purchase a new Apple laptop with this technology. MBP's current sales are going to slump from here on out until this technology is put into some new computers.
this blog was also written by jason o'grady, aka the PowerPage rumor site. his writing means nothing to me.
slackpacker
Aug 20, 12:58 AM
Anyone ever check and see if Quicktime was Universal
ZoomZoomZoom
Sep 19, 10:02 AM
You should thouroughly read a post before you quote and attempt to disprove it, or in this case, call the poster a name like fanboy...
The poster before you mentioned how these "sub-$1000" laptops are JUST starting to ship THIS WEEK, not a month ago as you claim. If Apple were to release new MBP on Monday and announce them as "shipping today," then Apple would only mere days behind, not a month.
P.S. If you skipped to the end of this post again and are about to reply angrily, please go back and read the post as you will better understand what I am trying to say...
I found information on another forum and read it a bit incorrectly.
Nonetheless, even after re-reading sources (which a quick google of "shipping merom laptop" will bring up), Apple is at minimum a week and a half behind, assuming that shipping in blindingly fast. And seeing as they didn't update MBPs today - and (assuming rumors are correct) they might update next week, this puts Apple a solid two and a half weeks behind.
And that's on sub-$1000 notebooks.
The poster before you mentioned how these "sub-$1000" laptops are JUST starting to ship THIS WEEK, not a month ago as you claim. If Apple were to release new MBP on Monday and announce them as "shipping today," then Apple would only mere days behind, not a month.
P.S. If you skipped to the end of this post again and are about to reply angrily, please go back and read the post as you will better understand what I am trying to say...
I found information on another forum and read it a bit incorrectly.
Nonetheless, even after re-reading sources (which a quick google of "shipping merom laptop" will bring up), Apple is at minimum a week and a half behind, assuming that shipping in blindingly fast. And seeing as they didn't update MBPs today - and (assuming rumors are correct) they might update next week, this puts Apple a solid two and a half weeks behind.
And that's on sub-$1000 notebooks.
studiomusic
Nov 29, 11:12 AM
Here's my take.
I started a small record label with 3 signed artists. 2 have gone nowhere and probably won't. 1 has finished her debut release (look for Kyria -Whispers In The Dark on itunes!) and we are working on a follow up.
I write/perform the music and she writes lyrics and sings. We split ANY money coming in 45/45/10. 45% for her, 45% for me and 10% for the label.
We've sold a few hundred songs on itunes and have made a few hundred bucks from it.
I think that itunes is a boon for the music biz. But, now you have to have good songs and good artists to succeed. People will not buy 1 hit and 9 loads of crap anymore. Make the very best music, and people will buy it.
I don't want any tax on what might happen with something. What if the State gave you 25 speeding tickets and 40 parking tickets when you bought a new car? We all know that cars are just used for speeding and parking violations.
NOW, if Universal get's a cut from every ipod sold, we would want a cut too (not as big of a cut, but still). Not to be greedy, but to be fair to my artists.
This is why it won't work. Too many independents that would want their piece too.
Oh ya, go buy Kyria's album on itunes! (If I was a big label, I could charge her for the time I took to post that as advertising expenses... broken is the music industry!)
I started a small record label with 3 signed artists. 2 have gone nowhere and probably won't. 1 has finished her debut release (look for Kyria -Whispers In The Dark on itunes!) and we are working on a follow up.
I write/perform the music and she writes lyrics and sings. We split ANY money coming in 45/45/10. 45% for her, 45% for me and 10% for the label.
We've sold a few hundred songs on itunes and have made a few hundred bucks from it.
I think that itunes is a boon for the music biz. But, now you have to have good songs and good artists to succeed. People will not buy 1 hit and 9 loads of crap anymore. Make the very best music, and people will buy it.
I don't want any tax on what might happen with something. What if the State gave you 25 speeding tickets and 40 parking tickets when you bought a new car? We all know that cars are just used for speeding and parking violations.
NOW, if Universal get's a cut from every ipod sold, we would want a cut too (not as big of a cut, but still). Not to be greedy, but to be fair to my artists.
This is why it won't work. Too many independents that would want their piece too.
Oh ya, go buy Kyria's album on itunes! (If I was a big label, I could charge her for the time I took to post that as advertising expenses... broken is the music industry!)
ugp
Jun 22, 08:58 AM
My local store has received no information or shipment orders as of yet. A few new SKUs generated in the system for accessories but that is it so far.
As soon as I hear from my friend I will post updates.
Still don't have much faith though...
As soon as I hear from my friend I will post updates.
Still don't have much faith though...
KindredMAC
Jul 14, 03:20 PM
A new Mac Pro for $1799? Not bad people!!!! In essence Apple is cutting the price of the current Dual Core 2 GHz G5 PowerMac by $200..... The same price as it is on the EDU store.
If you want something cheaper, buy an iMac for Christ's sake! That's why Apple has made them as powerful as they are now. They are meant as a bridge between the "Con-sumer" and the "Pro-sumer". PowerMacs have been and always will be for PROFESSIONALS!!!! Not the weekend warrior who "dabbles" in Photoshop. That's what the iMac is for people!!!
In my opinion and thoughts there will be no difference between these and the current G5 PowerMacs in performance.
As for Dual Optical Drives? AMEN! It is a hassle and waste of HD space when you need to copy a disc, especially Application Discs that you might want to keep in a safe place but have a copy always handy. I'm contemplating buying an external DVD Burner to hook up to my Dual Core G5 PM for these very reasons. I might wait though for a Blu Ray Disc Burner first though.
The thing that perplexes me is the relocation of the Power Supply to the top. This is either bogus info or they know something they aren't letting on about all the Liquid Cooling problems that have been arising lately in the repair world.
Plus would this not put a strain on the power cord since the cord would have its own weight hanging down on it instead of how it currently comes out of the back of the tower and immediately lays on the floor or desk surface? Something's fishy about this.
If you want something cheaper, buy an iMac for Christ's sake! That's why Apple has made them as powerful as they are now. They are meant as a bridge between the "Con-sumer" and the "Pro-sumer". PowerMacs have been and always will be for PROFESSIONALS!!!! Not the weekend warrior who "dabbles" in Photoshop. That's what the iMac is for people!!!
In my opinion and thoughts there will be no difference between these and the current G5 PowerMacs in performance.
As for Dual Optical Drives? AMEN! It is a hassle and waste of HD space when you need to copy a disc, especially Application Discs that you might want to keep in a safe place but have a copy always handy. I'm contemplating buying an external DVD Burner to hook up to my Dual Core G5 PM for these very reasons. I might wait though for a Blu Ray Disc Burner first though.
The thing that perplexes me is the relocation of the Power Supply to the top. This is either bogus info or they know something they aren't letting on about all the Liquid Cooling problems that have been arising lately in the repair world.
Plus would this not put a strain on the power cord since the cord would have its own weight hanging down on it instead of how it currently comes out of the back of the tower and immediately lays on the floor or desk surface? Something's fishy about this.
dscuber9000
Mar 1, 08:13 AM
Yet another case of straight people telling gay people how being gay works. I just don't get it.:rolleyes:
regandarcy
Apr 5, 05:48 PM
New iMacs would be great. Let's not forget new MacBook airs. They need sandy bridge and thunderbolt too! :-)
Doubt it will be MacBook airs. But updating the iMacs along with the new final cut pro does make sense.
Doubt it will be MacBook airs. But updating the iMacs along with the new final cut pro does make sense.
AndroidfoLife
Apr 6, 04:42 PM
Upper Middle Class FTW!
Poor college student for the win.
I have to be a part time street pharmacist to pay for my tech additions
Poor college student for the win.
I have to be a part time street pharmacist to pay for my tech additions
bassfingers
Apr 27, 04:55 PM
The right wing has once again demonstrated to what extent it's pathetic. Obama once again acts like the only grown up amongst a crowd of children. Nothing new.
Oh, I thought his administration was the one that dropped the F-bomb on live TV.
Or that he was the one who fabricated a "healthcare crisis" so that he could ram through legislation that doesn't even kick in for years
I thought he was the one who is always on the news whining about why nothing ever goes his way.
He is the inexperienced child. And if he hadn't been born in the US, that would have been great news
Oh, I thought his administration was the one that dropped the F-bomb on live TV.
Or that he was the one who fabricated a "healthcare crisis" so that he could ram through legislation that doesn't even kick in for years
I thought he was the one who is always on the news whining about why nothing ever goes his way.
He is the inexperienced child. And if he hadn't been born in the US, that would have been great news
gauriemma
Aug 25, 08:06 PM
and there was a lot of confusion as to what batteries were affected.
Right. Because the whole "if your battery's serial number falls within this range, this range, or this range" concept was so terribly difficult to grasp.
Right. Because the whole "if your battery's serial number falls within this range, this range, or this range" concept was so terribly difficult to grasp.
mlayer
Mar 31, 03:12 PM
A big part of each Android OEM partner's strategy has been to differentiate by software, usually through skinning. I'm curious to know what this means for them when Ice Cream comes around. How limited will they be in terms of customization? And if differentiation is curtailed, how can the OEM's stand out? What's to stop some no-name upstart from undercutting all of them and eating their lunch? The era of the commodity smartphone has officially begun and it's a race to the bottom for Android partners. Apple may not win the market share war, but as long as they maintain margins, sell out every unit and maintain customer satisfaction, they'll be in an enviable position.
BruinJohn
Sep 19, 09:57 AM
Along with the 5-7 business days for a MacBook, it says the refurbed white ones will ship out in 30 business days... Does this mean they don't have them in stock? Or does it mean that they are having severe problems that require 30 days to fix and then ship out? I hope it means that because they will be introducing new MB and MBP, they want to hold the refurbed's so that people won't get mad cuz they are going to cut the prices on the current stock of MB to make room for the new MB Core 2 Duos. I'm hoping for a MacBook. My 2.5 year old 12" powerbook still works great, but I want to get an Intel mac, and I already have a Mac Mini, and a G5 iMac, so my Powerbook will have to go soon.
ergle2
Aug 27, 10:36 PM
Do you mean Vista Premium compliance? I'm pretty sure I've seen "Ready for Vista" stickers on plenty of current notebooks featuring GMA950 graphics, for example.
And btw, I have to say "good job" to Apple for doing whatever was necessary to avoid having to put a bunch of goofy decals on their computers. The most amazing thing to me is the number of PC notebook users that leave all those stickers on (I've even seen some people leave the "features" stickers on).
Looks like GMA950 is "good enough" for the Premium sticker. From what I'd read from Intel, it sounded like you needed X3000 if you wanted better than the "Compliance" sticker, but I guess Intel want to sell newer, more expensive chipsets ;)
Still, based on what I've read about it thus far, if I had to have one, I'd rather have GMA950. Tho' right now I lean towards not buying anything that lacks discrete graphics.
As for stickers... I don't really care, to be honest. They just peel off anyway. Probably a win for Apple purely because the lack of them looks much "cleaner" for the demo models in the store, and I doubt the majority of people take any notice of them. Most won't even know what they mean, I suspect.
And btw, I have to say "good job" to Apple for doing whatever was necessary to avoid having to put a bunch of goofy decals on their computers. The most amazing thing to me is the number of PC notebook users that leave all those stickers on (I've even seen some people leave the "features" stickers on).
Looks like GMA950 is "good enough" for the Premium sticker. From what I'd read from Intel, it sounded like you needed X3000 if you wanted better than the "Compliance" sticker, but I guess Intel want to sell newer, more expensive chipsets ;)
Still, based on what I've read about it thus far, if I had to have one, I'd rather have GMA950. Tho' right now I lean towards not buying anything that lacks discrete graphics.
As for stickers... I don't really care, to be honest. They just peel off anyway. Probably a win for Apple purely because the lack of them looks much "cleaner" for the demo models in the store, and I doubt the majority of people take any notice of them. Most won't even know what they mean, I suspect.
shigzeo
Aug 6, 09:04 AM
2 gig shuffle, same head amp out, same package, just 2 gigs and certainty that apple won't replace it with nano... or in september, october, november when the new nano comes out, let it have the same or upgraded shuffle head amp out.
for me, no new mac till next year at earliest so... bother it all, i will share in all of my macrumors' mates excitement!
for me, no new mac till next year at earliest so... bother it all, i will share in all of my macrumors' mates excitement!
Bengt77
Mar 26, 02:36 PM
No, they could go DVD or Mac App Store. I hope we get a USB version, but I don't think it'll happen.
My bet is on distribution on custom design USB drives, like this one (http://molotalk.com/new-macbook-air-ships-with-custom-printed-software-reinstall-usb-drive/).
My bet is on distribution on custom design USB drives, like this one (http://molotalk.com/new-macbook-air-ships-with-custom-printed-software-reinstall-usb-drive/).
animatedude
Apr 7, 09:21 AM
If June 2011 is set, then i would expect:
11.6"
Sandy Bridge
4GB RAM default
256GB SSD max
Thunderbolt
13"
Sandy Bridge
4GB RAM default
512GB SSD max
Thunderbolt
Back-lit keyboard
Ext Superdrive free (hi end model)
Rejoice!
ok don't be as ass! back-lit keyboard on the 13' but not the 11' would be heartbreaking for those of us who wants the 11 and will make the decision making between the two even harder..
11.6"
Sandy Bridge
4GB RAM default
256GB SSD max
Thunderbolt
13"
Sandy Bridge
4GB RAM default
512GB SSD max
Thunderbolt
Back-lit keyboard
Ext Superdrive free (hi end model)
Rejoice!
ok don't be as ass! back-lit keyboard on the 13' but not the 11' would be heartbreaking for those of us who wants the 11 and will make the decision making between the two even harder..
sunfast
Aug 17, 09:07 AM
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
Forgive the � for those that think in $.
Aren't there 2 chips though?
Forgive the � for those that think in $.
Aren't there 2 chips though?
Tomaz
Aug 7, 06:02 PM
They way I understand it, Time Machine is SUPPOSED to be used with an external...the page on the Leopard site even has an icon of an iMac connected to an External. I'm sure you can use your Internal drive if you want, but I don't see the point of that.
So how about the MacBooks?? I don't carry around an external HD all the time. So when I do changes to a document on a flight, there's no TimeMachine backup?? Cool whould be, if the programm did backups to an external HD when available and locally when there's no external HD. But as soon as one connects the extrenal HD again, those local backups should be automatically moved to the extrenal to save space on the internal HD. That would eliminate the need for an additional external backup.
So how about the MacBooks?? I don't carry around an external HD all the time. So when I do changes to a document on a flight, there's no TimeMachine backup?? Cool whould be, if the programm did backups to an external HD when available and locally when there's no external HD. But as soon as one connects the extrenal HD again, those local backups should be automatically moved to the extrenal to save space on the internal HD. That would eliminate the need for an additional external backup.
leekohler
Mar 1, 07:47 AM
It's amazing how the message can be impacted so much by where it is coming from. If leekohler would have said "I'm chronically gay," many of us might've gotten a chuckle out of it. ;)
The sheer willful ignorance is astounding. People like this do not want to understand others who are different from them. They want to remain ignorant.
The sheer willful ignorance is astounding. People like this do not want to understand others who are different from them. They want to remain ignorant.
TangoCharlie
Jul 20, 11:28 AM
any talk of a quad core merom or mobile cpu?
No. I shouldn't think any laptop will be getting Kentsfield for a while....
No. I shouldn't think any laptop will be getting Kentsfield for a while....
whooleytoo
Apr 27, 08:48 AM
I thought they said that there was not any concerns?
Because, despite how Apple excel at so many things, when it comes to handling user (quality or privacy) concerns like this, they suck.
Look at their responses to the iPhone 4 antenna issue:
"You're holding it wrong" - Blame the customer.
'Every phone has the same issue' - Our phone is bad, but no worse than anyone else's
'Let's change how the signal bars are displayed' - Let's hide the problem.
'Let's give a bumper case with the iPhone' - Let's offer a solution to some users, to get them off our back for a problem we used to deny even existed.
I'm not even saying the antenna issue was a serious problem, but Apple's dismissive attitude is only throwing fuel on the fire. If they had tackled it quicker, it would be never have been newsworthy.
It's great that Apple are addressing this (location) issue much quicker, but still it only is happening after they initially denied there was any issue, and waiting for the furore to grow before acting.
Because, despite how Apple excel at so many things, when it comes to handling user (quality or privacy) concerns like this, they suck.
Look at their responses to the iPhone 4 antenna issue:
"You're holding it wrong" - Blame the customer.
'Every phone has the same issue' - Our phone is bad, but no worse than anyone else's
'Let's change how the signal bars are displayed' - Let's hide the problem.
'Let's give a bumper case with the iPhone' - Let's offer a solution to some users, to get them off our back for a problem we used to deny even existed.
I'm not even saying the antenna issue was a serious problem, but Apple's dismissive attitude is only throwing fuel on the fire. If they had tackled it quicker, it would be never have been newsworthy.
It's great that Apple are addressing this (location) issue much quicker, but still it only is happening after they initially denied there was any issue, and waiting for the furore to grow before acting.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 3, 10:05 AM
And I don't see the point in being sexually attracted to anyone of the opposite sex, but since society tells me it's "normal" I live with it nonetheless. It's all a matter of perception and experience. You have yours, I have mine and they're both normal to us.
Sure, different people have different experiences. That's partly why some people feel same-sex attractions and why others feel opposite-sex attractions. Macaroony doesn't see any point in opposite-sex attractions. I don't see any point in same-sex attractions. Here are two videos that explain what I believe about why some people feel same-sex attractions. I think the speaker works for NARTH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFAJXvxcGrk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UziWSdC8Zhw&feature=related
Pedophilia is immoral - no matter man or woman. Please do not put both homosexuality and pedophilia into the same boat. There are plenty of grown men who abuse underage girls, it's when they happen to be gay that elevates the problem and lazily ties it to homosexuality.
Just as no one chooses to feel same-sex attractions, no one chooses to be a pedophile. I know some pedophiles. But some pedophiles do choose to molest children. I don't want to conflate pedophilia and immoral actions that some pedophiles do because they're pedophiles.
Many people ignore the difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts. Many Christians insist that homosexuality is immoral. But homosexuality is a property, not an action. Nor is it a sin of omission. Homosexuality the property is morally indifferent. Homosexual acts are, I think, immoral. An action can be immoral, even if someone doesn't deserve any blame for doing it.
No, I shouldn't put homosexuality and pedophilia in the same boat. I mentioned the Catholic Church's homosexual-abuse because skunk seems to think my opinions about sexual morality are feelings, not beliefs that are either true or false. Even psychotherapists I've talked with have agreed that feelings are neither truths nor falsehoods. Feelings are neither of those, but there are truths about feelings and there are falsehoods about them. If I only feel that homosexual acts are immoral, should some government outlaw feeling that way?
The phrase "a fact" is ambiguous. It can mean "a truth." It can also mean "a set of actual set of circumstances." There are truths about feelings, and there are feelings about truths. But my feelings aren't truths. Even if moral relativism is true, there are still objective truths about whether some society or other considers some action morally acceptable. And some relativists still hold a self-inconsistent belief when they believe that since every belief is relative to some context or other, there's no such thing as absolute truth. In one sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true about every context. In that sense of the phrase "absolute truth," I imply a self-contradiction myself when I say that since every truth is relative to some context or other, I imply that it's an absolute truth that there's no absolute truth.
In another sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true whether anyone believes it or not. Even if I'm mistaken when I believe that homosexual sex is gravely immoral, it's still true that either they're moral or not moral.
Too often, people who feel same-sex attractions suffer needlessly partly because they, others, or both ignore important distinctions. Unfortunately, people often ignore them when their feelings determine too much of what those people believe.
Immoral behavior continues partly because of moral relativism. Instead of conforming our minds to reality, we try to conform reality to our minds. Moral relativists talk as though an action is moral if and only if someone believes that it's moral. Some moral relativists even insist that if you believe that homosexual acts are morally acceptable, and I believe they're immoral, then we're both right. A moral relativist might say the same about the morality or immorality of gay-bashing. But someone is right when he thinks that gay-bashing is morally right, should a court punish him for gay-bashing someone?
Sure, different people have different experiences. That's partly why some people feel same-sex attractions and why others feel opposite-sex attractions. Macaroony doesn't see any point in opposite-sex attractions. I don't see any point in same-sex attractions. Here are two videos that explain what I believe about why some people feel same-sex attractions. I think the speaker works for NARTH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFAJXvxcGrk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UziWSdC8Zhw&feature=related
Pedophilia is immoral - no matter man or woman. Please do not put both homosexuality and pedophilia into the same boat. There are plenty of grown men who abuse underage girls, it's when they happen to be gay that elevates the problem and lazily ties it to homosexuality.
Just as no one chooses to feel same-sex attractions, no one chooses to be a pedophile. I know some pedophiles. But some pedophiles do choose to molest children. I don't want to conflate pedophilia and immoral actions that some pedophiles do because they're pedophiles.
Many people ignore the difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts. Many Christians insist that homosexuality is immoral. But homosexuality is a property, not an action. Nor is it a sin of omission. Homosexuality the property is morally indifferent. Homosexual acts are, I think, immoral. An action can be immoral, even if someone doesn't deserve any blame for doing it.
No, I shouldn't put homosexuality and pedophilia in the same boat. I mentioned the Catholic Church's homosexual-abuse because skunk seems to think my opinions about sexual morality are feelings, not beliefs that are either true or false. Even psychotherapists I've talked with have agreed that feelings are neither truths nor falsehoods. Feelings are neither of those, but there are truths about feelings and there are falsehoods about them. If I only feel that homosexual acts are immoral, should some government outlaw feeling that way?
The phrase "a fact" is ambiguous. It can mean "a truth." It can also mean "a set of actual set of circumstances." There are truths about feelings, and there are feelings about truths. But my feelings aren't truths. Even if moral relativism is true, there are still objective truths about whether some society or other considers some action morally acceptable. And some relativists still hold a self-inconsistent belief when they believe that since every belief is relative to some context or other, there's no such thing as absolute truth. In one sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true about every context. In that sense of the phrase "absolute truth," I imply a self-contradiction myself when I say that since every truth is relative to some context or other, I imply that it's an absolute truth that there's no absolute truth.
In another sense of the phrase "absolute truth," a truth is absolute when it's true whether anyone believes it or not. Even if I'm mistaken when I believe that homosexual sex is gravely immoral, it's still true that either they're moral or not moral.
Too often, people who feel same-sex attractions suffer needlessly partly because they, others, or both ignore important distinctions. Unfortunately, people often ignore them when their feelings determine too much of what those people believe.
Immoral behavior continues partly because of moral relativism. Instead of conforming our minds to reality, we try to conform reality to our minds. Moral relativists talk as though an action is moral if and only if someone believes that it's moral. Some moral relativists even insist that if you believe that homosexual acts are morally acceptable, and I believe they're immoral, then we're both right. A moral relativist might say the same about the morality or immorality of gay-bashing. But someone is right when he thinks that gay-bashing is morally right, should a court punish him for gay-bashing someone?